Torture
Power is in inflicting pain and humiliation. Power
is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new
shapes of your own choosing. Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world
we are creating? -George Orwell, 1984
I don't think torture should be debated on its merits, but for those so inclined I would point out that the one truth consistently produced by torture is that anyone will say anything to get it to stop, and whatever meager knowledge might on occassion be gleaned thereby is as a practical matter quite unworth the sacrifice of moral authority entailed. When engaged in by governments, it is not much more than state sponsored sadism.
How did we manage to get through the Civil War, how did we defeat Germany and Japan, how did we prevail in the cold war without official resort to torture? How can we now hem and haw about the Geneva Conventions, how can we tolerate Bush's "alternative interrogation" doublespeak on this? How can we even be having this debate?
Let's face it- our country is currently being run by fascist trash.
But more to the immediate point, when is Inglis going to do, or at least say, something about it? When and if he ever does climb to the moral high ground on this, or at least out of the moral ditch, it will be rather a late and unconvincing start.
WASHINGTON-
Vice President Dick Cheney has confirmed that U.S. interrogators subjected
captured senior al-Qaida suspects to a controversial interrogation technique
called "water-boarding," which creates a sensation of drowning.
Cheney indicated that the Bush administration doesn't regard water-boarding as torture and allows the CIA to use it. "It's a no-brainer for me," Cheney said at one point in an interview.
Lee Ann McBride, a spokeswoman for Cheney, denied that Cheney confirmed that U.S. interrogators used water-boarding or endorsed the technique.
"What the vice president was referring to was an interrogation program without torture," she said. "The vice president never goes into what may or may not be techniques or methods of questioning."
Here's an historical perspective on waterboarding-
The torture of waterboarding, then and now
addendum:
How's this for Jesus centered family values-
(CNN, 8/20/06)- (in reference to John McCain's anti-torture position in defiance of Bush) "Maverick status is looked upon as a strength in Congress, but a maverick in the White House is not looked upon with great admiration from our folks," Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, said Monday.
"Politically, this isn't wise," added the Rev. Louis Sheldon, chairman of the Traditional Values Coalition, which supports the president's call for Congress to approve tough interrogation techniques for terrorism suspects.
I guess it has to be asked- who would Jesus torture?
addendum2:
"Most of you here know what it means when 100 corpses lie next to each other, when 500 lie there or when 1,000 are lined up. To have endured this and at the same time to have remained a decent person -- with exceptions due to human weaknesses -- had made us tough."
-SS Reichsführer Heinrich Himmler on German exceptionalism (Poznan, Poland)
addendum3:
(Greenville News, 9/23/06)- Asked what would be allowed, a smiling Graham said, "You'd have to join al-Qaida or the Taliban and get captured to find out."
Fascist. Trash.
addendum4:
Here's a good piece on torture by Alan Bock: Torture Chic: Sign of Decadence
addendum5:
(11/5/06) And here's a CNN report on the Bush administration's efforts to keep its exceptionally dirty laundry off the line- Bush administration: Ex-CIA prisoner shouldn't speak to attorney
addendum6:
(12/6/06) The lighter side of torture- George W. Bush, surrealist.
addendum7:
(10/19/07) WASHINGTON (AP)- The White House on Friday defended Attorney General-nominee Michael Mukasey's refusal to say whether he considers waterboarding a form of torture, saying it is a difficult issue to discuss in public.
Guess so.
Like I said. Fascist trash.
addendum8:
(11/6/07) Keith Olbermann on waterboarding- George Bush's Criminal Conspiracy of Torture.
addendum9:
(11/7/07) (AP)- The interrogation procedure makes the subject think he's drowning, and has been banned by domestic law and international treaties. Those policies don't cover the CIA's use of the technique, however, and the Bush administration has sidestepped questions about whether it has allowed the agency's employees to use it against terror detainees.
Domestic laws and international treaties that exempt the CIA? Further down we find-
A third witness who had agreed to testify (before Congress) said the Pentagon prohibited him from appearing.
So the military now decides who the Congress of the United States is allowed to talk to.
And it's a bit farcical to play pin the tail on the torture donkey by prohibiting this or that particular act. There was never paper enough for the law which would particularly and explicitly prohibit all the ways by which one person might inflict pain or degradation upon another, which is the reason we don't for instance outlaw only specific acts of murder or theft. Murder is murder, theft is theft. Torture is torture. Such things are either illegal or they are not. Period.
addendum10:
(2/4/08) Wanted to mention it somewhere that our new Attorney General Mr. Mukasey who doesn't know if waterboarding is torture when done to someone else said it would be torture if done to him, and he said this on camera at an official hearing to a US Senator.
The. Attorney. General. Of. The. United. States. Of. America.
addendum11:
(3/12/08) Here's a collection of anti-torture articles by various noteworthy people, No More.
I don't think torture should be debated on its merits, but for those so inclined I would point out that the one truth consistently produced by torture is that anyone will say anything to get it to stop, and whatever meager knowledge might on occassion be gleaned thereby is as a practical matter quite unworth the sacrifice of moral authority entailed. When engaged in by governments, it is not much more than state sponsored sadism.
How did we manage to get through the Civil War, how did we defeat Germany and Japan, how did we prevail in the cold war without official resort to torture? How can we now hem and haw about the Geneva Conventions, how can we tolerate Bush's "alternative interrogation" doublespeak on this? How can we even be having this debate?
Let's face it- our country is currently being run by fascist trash.
But more to the immediate point, when is Inglis going to do, or at least say, something about it? When and if he ever does climb to the moral high ground on this, or at least out of the moral ditch, it will be rather a late and unconvincing start.
WASHINGTON-
Vice President Dick Cheney has confirmed that U.S. interrogators subjected
captured senior al-Qaida suspects to a controversial interrogation technique
called "water-boarding," which creates a sensation of drowning.Cheney indicated that the Bush administration doesn't regard water-boarding as torture and allows the CIA to use it. "It's a no-brainer for me," Cheney said at one point in an interview.
Lee Ann McBride, a spokeswoman for Cheney, denied that Cheney confirmed that U.S. interrogators used water-boarding or endorsed the technique.
"What the vice president was referring to was an interrogation program without torture," she said. "The vice president never goes into what may or may not be techniques or methods of questioning."
Here's an historical perspective on waterboarding-
The torture of waterboarding, then and now
addendum:
How's this for Jesus centered family values-
(CNN, 8/20/06)- (in reference to John McCain's anti-torture position in defiance of Bush) "Maverick status is looked upon as a strength in Congress, but a maverick in the White House is not looked upon with great admiration from our folks," Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council, said Monday.
"Politically, this isn't wise," added the Rev. Louis Sheldon, chairman of the Traditional Values Coalition, which supports the president's call for Congress to approve tough interrogation techniques for terrorism suspects.
I guess it has to be asked- who would Jesus torture?
addendum2:
"Most of you here know what it means when 100 corpses lie next to each other, when 500 lie there or when 1,000 are lined up. To have endured this and at the same time to have remained a decent person -- with exceptions due to human weaknesses -- had made us tough."
-SS Reichsführer Heinrich Himmler on German exceptionalism (Poznan, Poland)
addendum3:
(Greenville News, 9/23/06)- Asked what would be allowed, a smiling Graham said, "You'd have to join al-Qaida or the Taliban and get captured to find out."
Fascist. Trash.
addendum4:
Here's a good piece on torture by Alan Bock: Torture Chic: Sign of Decadence
addendum5:
(11/5/06) And here's a CNN report on the Bush administration's efforts to keep its exceptionally dirty laundry off the line- Bush administration: Ex-CIA prisoner shouldn't speak to attorney
addendum6:
(12/6/06) The lighter side of torture- George W. Bush, surrealist.
addendum7:
(10/19/07) WASHINGTON (AP)- The White House on Friday defended Attorney General-nominee Michael Mukasey's refusal to say whether he considers waterboarding a form of torture, saying it is a difficult issue to discuss in public.
Guess so.
Like I said. Fascist trash.
addendum8:
(11/6/07) Keith Olbermann on waterboarding- George Bush's Criminal Conspiracy of Torture.
addendum9:
(11/7/07) (AP)- The interrogation procedure makes the subject think he's drowning, and has been banned by domestic law and international treaties. Those policies don't cover the CIA's use of the technique, however, and the Bush administration has sidestepped questions about whether it has allowed the agency's employees to use it against terror detainees.
Domestic laws and international treaties that exempt the CIA? Further down we find-
A third witness who had agreed to testify (before Congress) said the Pentagon prohibited him from appearing.
So the military now decides who the Congress of the United States is allowed to talk to.
And it's a bit farcical to play pin the tail on the torture donkey by prohibiting this or that particular act. There was never paper enough for the law which would particularly and explicitly prohibit all the ways by which one person might inflict pain or degradation upon another, which is the reason we don't for instance outlaw only specific acts of murder or theft. Murder is murder, theft is theft. Torture is torture. Such things are either illegal or they are not. Period.
addendum10:
(2/4/08) Wanted to mention it somewhere that our new Attorney General Mr. Mukasey who doesn't know if waterboarding is torture when done to someone else said it would be torture if done to him, and he said this on camera at an official hearing to a US Senator.
The. Attorney. General. Of. The. United. States. Of. America.
addendum11:
(3/12/08) Here's a collection of anti-torture articles by various noteworthy people, No More.
